Sandra the Serious?! An interview with the fabulous Sandra Bernhard by Blase DiStefano

Abrasive? Brash? Hilarious?
No! No! No! Well, maybe in her one-woman show. But in our phone interview, the diva was . . . well . . . utterly charming. I would probably not be going out on a limb by saying she was even introspective and spiritual. • Sandra Bernhard travels to Houston’s Aerial Theatre on Friday, May 5 (2000), with her one-woman off-Broadway hit, I’M STILL HERE . . . DAMN IT!, the critically acclaimed show that ended its five-month run in 1998. Bernhard soon became a mom, and then did the show again, this time on Broadway. The show, which is ever-evolving and changing, has become a nationwide tour being performed to sold-out audiences. • I began our interview by asking Bernhard about her 21-month-old baby girl.

Blase DiStefano: How is Cicely?
Sandra Bernhard: She’s great.

I read that her Hebrew name is Rachel. Do you go by Cicely or Rachel?
I go by Cicely, but you know I’m very involved with my Kabbala and my studies. So when you’re doing a connection spiritually, we use Rachel. Yeah, it’s a spiritual name.

Do you get to take her with you on your tour?
Yes, she comes everywhere with me.

Does she look anything like David Crosby?
No, no. We went in a different direction.

[Laughter] On a somewhat related subject, do you think gays and lesbians should be able to legally marry?
I think they should have all the benefits that come from marriage, the protection that you get from that kind of credibility. I mean, is it necessary? It’s only necessary because of those reasons. Spiritually, I don’t know how I feel about it.

Yeah, personally, I’m just not a marriage person.
I’m not a marriage person either, so for me it just seems sort of silly, but I think absolutely there should be equivalent protection for everyone.

A woman here in the office wants to know if you’re involved.
Yes, I am.

Well, that lets her out; I’ll let her know.
Sorry.

We’ve been having a discussion here in the office about labels. On the one hand I see not wanting to be labeled as a gay person or a lesbian or whatever, but then on the other hand, I see kids and quite a number of adults whose lives would be so less sad and restricted if they saw people who didn’t feel the need to hide what they are. How do you feel about the necessity for labels in that sense?
I feel there’s a necessity for imagination and a necessity for being really comfortable in your own skin, and I don’t think that comes from labeling. I think that comes from somebody who is a complete free spirit, and I think you get the inspiration from that, not from somebody coming in and saying I’M GAY; I think that continues the limitation. I am a very eclectic kind of person. I just really get turned on by interesting people. I don’t gravitate toward some sexual preference. I gravitate toward people who are really rocking and cutting-edge and cool. Otherwise I get bored. It would be almost heartbreaking to just be hanging out with somebody because they are gay. ’Cause not everybody is so interesting who is gay.

My next question didn’t come to mind because of what you just said, but what’s your take on the “gays in the military” issue?
I don’t think there should be any secrets about it. I think someone should be able to come and go as they please, whatever walk of life they choose. And I think that whole “don’t ask don’t tell” thing is fucking ridiculous. I mean it should be abolished and people should just be allowed to be who they are. If they encounter prejudice, they’re going to encounter the same prejudice there as they do in the outside world, but at least they are going to be able to say fuck you. I just think the whole thing is archaic.

Same with adoption. People say gays shouldn’t be able to adopt partly because the child is going to grow up having to put up with everybody saying “your mommy’s a queer” or worse.
By the same token they can have straight parents who are geeks and morons and be tortured for the geeky, moronic parents they have. I mean, that’s a crap shoot. Every soul chooses their parents whether they’re natural or adopted—those are the people you are supposed to be with.

Yeah, I feel like I chose my parents before I was born.
Yeah, we all did. It’s part of our spiritual growth in this world. This life.

So what do you think of Jerry Lewis [and his negative comments about female comics]?
Oh, you know, Jerry is such a character. I mean I look at Jerry like my dad who’s from that generation of men who don’t understand women, who are afraid of women, who just didn’t grow up thinking that women were supposed to be smart or funny. I worship Jerry; he’s a pain in the ass, but Jerry Lewis is brilliant, so I never get bent out of shape about Jerry.

Are there people that you do get bent out of shape about?
Yeah, sure there are. I think Dr. Laura is a stupid ass.

[Laughter] Some time ago, she was considered “pro” gay, but I read that she changed her tune when she changed her religion.
She became an orthodox Jew. Once again, I study Kabbala; the practice, the religious aspect of it is orthodox, the spiritual practice accepts everyone. If you’re caught up in religiosity, which has nothing to do with spirituality, then you end up having license to be prejudiced. When you’re a spiritual person, you accept everybody and understand that that’s part of that person—the word is “tikune,” which is like karma. And that’s part of the person’s spiritual evolution. And if their sexuality helps them go through that, that’s what they have to go through. Everybody has a struggle in this world, but becoming religious in any form is limiting.

The spiritual part is what’s important.
Yes, it’s the only thing. The rest of it is robotic behavior.

Yeah, I was brought up Catholic.
It’s the same thing. If you can truly follow the spiritual doctrine and not the religious doctrine, you know there might be some kind of outlet that’s relative and relevant and important.

I remember after the confines of Catholicism, I went to the other extreme and became atheist. It took some time to reach the balance and become spiritual.
Well, of course, that’s what religion does—it drives people away and completely destroys their spirit.

Unless you go along with it.
Or unless you have independent thinking and you know how to get what’s important from it.

In June we’re celebrating Gay Pride Week. Have you ever been to or ridden in a gay pride parade?
I’ve been to one, but I don’t think I’ve actually ridden in one. Guess I’ve never been invited.

Would we love to have you ride in Houston’s!
Oh, how sweet. You never know.

You never know. OK, now for a stupid question: If you were stranded on a desert island, and you could only have one movie with you, what would it be?
THE GODFATHER. I mean it’s kind of a toss-up between I and II. I guess I would have to say I would have to have both.

That was a quick reply. OK, so you’re still stranded on that desert island and you can only have one person with you, not a friend, or lover, or family member, who would it be?
Pamela Anderson Lee.

May I ask you why?
If it has to be somebody I don’t know, it might as well be somebody fun.